tyaginator
2004-07-26 22:18:13 UTC
50040726 viii om
tyaginator:
#>#> this Apocalyptic is not accepted by all Christians as scripture,
#>#> as, for example, the Plymouth Brethren of Crowley's childhood,
#>#> to my knowledge.
later elaboration by tyaginator:
#> corrections welcomed. that's the last I recall of their sect, yes.
#> i wish some of these distinctions were more often, or more popularly
#> pointed out! i know the 100+ sects of christianity agree on very little
#> when all is said and done, so such facts usu. are not too surprising.
#> christianity itself was first cobbled together like this by Paul and
#> others as far as I can tell ca. 100-400 CE. People cherry-picked the
#> books (and versions of books?) they liked at Council of Nicea. Further
#> christianity has never been particularly consistent over the years,
#> certainly, least with/ about points of spiritual dogma. christianity is
#> monolithic in its political power not in its substance, form, or
#> manifestation.
#>#> this is why I consider it another 'Book' after
#>#> the Older and Newer Testaments, to which then Crowley appends
#>#> his Book. that he identifies himself in ways that harken to the
#>#> Book of Apocalyptic visions is relevant to a consideration of
#>#> his role with respect to all of these Religions of the Book.
DngulSkarmaTathagatgarbha <astrum-***@cox.net>:
#># I, in regular Discordian fashion, think it nifty to write your own
#># bible, preach your own law, tread your own path, forge your own
#># way, &c.
# Brother Theophane would then add: "and burn your own Bible!!"
# (cf. "Tales of a Magic Monastery").
DngulSkarmaTathagatgarbha <astrum-***@cox.net>:
# did a search on this. never heard of it. what is it? where's
# it from?
Theophane the Monk is the reputed author of the amusing text.
it is a batch of anecdotes, short stories, comparable to Sufi
tales compendiums. I have it from nonremembered source that
this was actually written by Idries Shah under one of his many
pseudonyms. I don't recall now who gave me that information.
the short story to which I refer I've keyed in before
(looking at luckymojo.com/esoteric.html search engine) is:
============================================================
From: ***@houseofkaos.Abyss.coM (tyagi mordred nagasiva)
To: alt.magick
Subject: Burning Bibles 451 :> (9408.bblburn.ttm)
Date: 49940824
Quoting: |***@thuja.FSL.ORST.EDU (Kevin Sahr)
and "Theophane the Monk (Idries Shah?)
|Please; if it is your inclination to tell me to simply toss the
|bible in the fire and forget about it, I would prefer that you
|enjoy your opinion in silence....
:> Here you go:
"I've been going there on retreat each year for the past forty years.
Each time it's the same, yet somehow always different. The first
time I went I forgot to bring my Bible. When I asked the guestmaster
if I could borrow a Bible, he said, 'Wouldn't you care to write your
own?'
"'What do you mean?'
"'Well, write your own Bible - something of your own on the order of the
Bible. You could tell of a classical bondage and the great liberation,
a promised land, sacred songs, a messiah - that kind of thing. Ought
to be much more interesting than just reading someone else's Bible.
And you might learn more.'
"Well, I set to work. It took me a month. I never learned so much about
the official Bible. When I was finished, he recommended I take it home
and try to live according to it for a year. I should keep a journal of
my experience. But I shouldn't tell anybody about the project, nor show
anyone the books. Next year, after Christmas, I could come back for
another retreat.
"It was quite a year. An eye-opener. Most certainly I had never put so
much energy and alertness into living by the official Bible as I was
putting into living by this one. And my daily meditations had never
been so concentrated.
"When I arrived back for my next retreat, he greeted me very warmly,
took into his hands my Bible and my journal, kissed them with greatest
reverence, and told me I could now spend a couple of days and nights
in the Hall of the Great Fire. On the last night of the year, I should
consign my two books to the flames. And that's what I did. A whole
year's wisdom and labor - into the Great Fire. Afterwards he set me
to work writing another Bible.
"And so it went, these past forty years. Each year a new Bible, a new
journal, and then at the end of the year - into the flames. Until now
I have never told anyone about this."
_Tales of a Magic Monastery_, by Theophane the Monk, pp. 43-4.
______________________________________________________________
tyagi
[***@luckymojo.com]
====================================================================
# i burn Legis at every solemn occassion I can muster.
excellent. if it is your scripture, so much the better, was all.
#># In particular, I like Phil Dick's Tractate Scriptura Cryptica # (sp?)
#># from VALIS, and N. Kazantzakis' (sp?) The Saviors of God.
#>
#> yow, I've heard very powerful recommendation on the former,
#
# you've read this one then? the novel is the cognitive support for
# the Horselover Fat's/ Phil Dick's Exegesis, and is really the main
# attraction. the 52. verses included in the back as an appendix are
# interesting, but can't really be properly be appreciated without first
# reading the VALIS novel.
I haven't read or seen that. sri catyananda has recommended it to me
more than once, and more than one PKDick fan has raved about it to me.
I haven't yet found his writing inviting and tend to read nonfiction.
having seen a bio film on the man I'm unsure I'd want his material in
my Bible, or how it might exactly relate (a cosmic Ray beaming into
his head by the God -- hm, or was it the CIA? ack!).
# N. K.'s Salvatores Dei is like a more sober Aleister Crowley Holy Books:
# good philisophic points, but less breathless cocaine-induced passages
# (or so I would guess). Curiously, both like Neitzsche, but only one of
# these men was taken seriously enough for the Catholic Church to put him
# on their No Read list, AFAIK. Gotta love that Forbidden list!
lol
now that you remind me of LTC, I understand why his book and maybe the
film too, would be put on such a list by the RCCs: heretical -- too
close to their cosmology and personage of the Jesus character to be
allowed promoted within the dictates of the church's authority.
semi-gnostic it seems to me, very human-based, possibly comparable
to some deist conceptions of Jesus as a human dealing in the
aftermath of the Creation epic.
#> never heard of the latter.
#
# well then, let me give you a decent link:
# Nikos Kazantzakis' short bio:
# http://www.philosophers.co.uk/cafe/phil_jan2003.htm
oh, now that you point out his works, I've seen both the films
(Zorba the Greek long ago, the Last Temptation of Christ numerous
times a decade or so ago or less -- I didn't read the books).
thanks for the URL. I don't usually follow them out but this one
was definitely worth it. :>
# The Saviors of God: Spiritual Exercises- initial publication in Greece
# in 1927, composed in 1923.
any relation to those Ignatius?
bunches available at Amazon and Zshops:
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/search-handle-form/002-2619387-5202438
reviews of the text:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0671202324/002-5867999-9064836
'Adam' says:
"...this is a series of spell-binding meditations that
most mainline believers of any stripe probably wouldn't
like; precisely because it scares the living daylights
out of you with its frightening possibilities and its
sirens' call of seemingly chaotic life-affirming zest. '
# Greek title: Asketeke ('Salvatores Dei') couldn't find any
# copies of this book on the nett, otherwise i would've given
# a link to same here.
#> These would be 6th and 7th (or so) on my short list.
#> 8th: Principia Discordia.
while I can appreciate the inclusion, I don't much see that the book
mentioned immediately above has to do with a supplanting or addition
to facets of the Jehovah-Jesus God (which is what *I* would be using
as a criteria for 'Bibles'.
#>#> Thomas Jefferson presumably pasted together his own bible.
#>#
#># he did. it is very lovely.
the infernal Wednesday-Tezcat borrowed mine and ne'er returned! ;>
it is a superior collage-work. inspirational. "The Jefferson Bible".
#> you can check out stuff like "The Jesus of Poets and Prophets"
#> too if you like Christian stuff. :>
#
# Is this the (a?) title he gave to his work?
different book, but it runs across the spectrum of Jesus figures.
again, when I'm back at the house, I'll give you the details if
you haven't found them at a good resource. I don't think that I
put that up online yet and don't know if the book is OP (it may
well be -- which means you may find some at Zshops -- I'll check:
ok found it. you may wish to add Zshops to your searches for books
online (because it includes O(ut of)P(rint) texts too):
Roberts, Richard (ASIN: 0804611718)
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/search-handle-form/002-2619387-5202438).
shit, that may be a difficult book to come by. the unpopular
legend-tracings and lie-compilations often get buried within
the brief attention between generations as to historicity.
here's the Zshops Adv Search page:
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/subst/search/fixed-search.html/002-2619387-5202438
which has been extremely helpful to me in locating hard-to-find items.
there are a few antiquarians which are comparable, such as Abebooks.com.
tyaginator
tyaginator:
#>#> this Apocalyptic is not accepted by all Christians as scripture,
#>#> as, for example, the Plymouth Brethren of Crowley's childhood,
#>#> to my knowledge.
later elaboration by tyaginator:
#> corrections welcomed. that's the last I recall of their sect, yes.
#> i wish some of these distinctions were more often, or more popularly
#> pointed out! i know the 100+ sects of christianity agree on very little
#> when all is said and done, so such facts usu. are not too surprising.
#> christianity itself was first cobbled together like this by Paul and
#> others as far as I can tell ca. 100-400 CE. People cherry-picked the
#> books (and versions of books?) they liked at Council of Nicea. Further
#> christianity has never been particularly consistent over the years,
#> certainly, least with/ about points of spiritual dogma. christianity is
#> monolithic in its political power not in its substance, form, or
#> manifestation.
#>#> this is why I consider it another 'Book' after
#>#> the Older and Newer Testaments, to which then Crowley appends
#>#> his Book. that he identifies himself in ways that harken to the
#>#> Book of Apocalyptic visions is relevant to a consideration of
#>#> his role with respect to all of these Religions of the Book.
DngulSkarmaTathagatgarbha <astrum-***@cox.net>:
#># I, in regular Discordian fashion, think it nifty to write your own
#># bible, preach your own law, tread your own path, forge your own
#># way, &c.
# Brother Theophane would then add: "and burn your own Bible!!"
# (cf. "Tales of a Magic Monastery").
DngulSkarmaTathagatgarbha <astrum-***@cox.net>:
# did a search on this. never heard of it. what is it? where's
# it from?
Theophane the Monk is the reputed author of the amusing text.
it is a batch of anecdotes, short stories, comparable to Sufi
tales compendiums. I have it from nonremembered source that
this was actually written by Idries Shah under one of his many
pseudonyms. I don't recall now who gave me that information.
the short story to which I refer I've keyed in before
(looking at luckymojo.com/esoteric.html search engine) is:
============================================================
From: ***@houseofkaos.Abyss.coM (tyagi mordred nagasiva)
To: alt.magick
Subject: Burning Bibles 451 :> (9408.bblburn.ttm)
Date: 49940824
Quoting: |***@thuja.FSL.ORST.EDU (Kevin Sahr)
and "Theophane the Monk (Idries Shah?)
|Please; if it is your inclination to tell me to simply toss the
|bible in the fire and forget about it, I would prefer that you
|enjoy your opinion in silence....
:> Here you go:
"I've been going there on retreat each year for the past forty years.
Each time it's the same, yet somehow always different. The first
time I went I forgot to bring my Bible. When I asked the guestmaster
if I could borrow a Bible, he said, 'Wouldn't you care to write your
own?'
"'What do you mean?'
"'Well, write your own Bible - something of your own on the order of the
Bible. You could tell of a classical bondage and the great liberation,
a promised land, sacred songs, a messiah - that kind of thing. Ought
to be much more interesting than just reading someone else's Bible.
And you might learn more.'
"Well, I set to work. It took me a month. I never learned so much about
the official Bible. When I was finished, he recommended I take it home
and try to live according to it for a year. I should keep a journal of
my experience. But I shouldn't tell anybody about the project, nor show
anyone the books. Next year, after Christmas, I could come back for
another retreat.
"It was quite a year. An eye-opener. Most certainly I had never put so
much energy and alertness into living by the official Bible as I was
putting into living by this one. And my daily meditations had never
been so concentrated.
"When I arrived back for my next retreat, he greeted me very warmly,
took into his hands my Bible and my journal, kissed them with greatest
reverence, and told me I could now spend a couple of days and nights
in the Hall of the Great Fire. On the last night of the year, I should
consign my two books to the flames. And that's what I did. A whole
year's wisdom and labor - into the Great Fire. Afterwards he set me
to work writing another Bible.
"And so it went, these past forty years. Each year a new Bible, a new
journal, and then at the end of the year - into the flames. Until now
I have never told anyone about this."
_Tales of a Magic Monastery_, by Theophane the Monk, pp. 43-4.
______________________________________________________________
tyagi
[***@luckymojo.com]
====================================================================
# i burn Legis at every solemn occassion I can muster.
excellent. if it is your scripture, so much the better, was all.
#># In particular, I like Phil Dick's Tractate Scriptura Cryptica # (sp?)
#># from VALIS, and N. Kazantzakis' (sp?) The Saviors of God.
#>
#> yow, I've heard very powerful recommendation on the former,
#
# you've read this one then? the novel is the cognitive support for
# the Horselover Fat's/ Phil Dick's Exegesis, and is really the main
# attraction. the 52. verses included in the back as an appendix are
# interesting, but can't really be properly be appreciated without first
# reading the VALIS novel.
I haven't read or seen that. sri catyananda has recommended it to me
more than once, and more than one PKDick fan has raved about it to me.
I haven't yet found his writing inviting and tend to read nonfiction.
having seen a bio film on the man I'm unsure I'd want his material in
my Bible, or how it might exactly relate (a cosmic Ray beaming into
his head by the God -- hm, or was it the CIA? ack!).
# N. K.'s Salvatores Dei is like a more sober Aleister Crowley Holy Books:
# good philisophic points, but less breathless cocaine-induced passages
# (or so I would guess). Curiously, both like Neitzsche, but only one of
# these men was taken seriously enough for the Catholic Church to put him
# on their No Read list, AFAIK. Gotta love that Forbidden list!
lol
now that you remind me of LTC, I understand why his book and maybe the
film too, would be put on such a list by the RCCs: heretical -- too
close to their cosmology and personage of the Jesus character to be
allowed promoted within the dictates of the church's authority.
semi-gnostic it seems to me, very human-based, possibly comparable
to some deist conceptions of Jesus as a human dealing in the
aftermath of the Creation epic.
#> never heard of the latter.
#
# well then, let me give you a decent link:
# Nikos Kazantzakis' short bio:
# http://www.philosophers.co.uk/cafe/phil_jan2003.htm
oh, now that you point out his works, I've seen both the films
(Zorba the Greek long ago, the Last Temptation of Christ numerous
times a decade or so ago or less -- I didn't read the books).
thanks for the URL. I don't usually follow them out but this one
was definitely worth it. :>
# The Saviors of God: Spiritual Exercises- initial publication in Greece
# in 1927, composed in 1923.
any relation to those Ignatius?
bunches available at Amazon and Zshops:
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/search-handle-form/002-2619387-5202438
reviews of the text:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0671202324/002-5867999-9064836
'Adam' says:
"...this is a series of spell-binding meditations that
most mainline believers of any stripe probably wouldn't
like; precisely because it scares the living daylights
out of you with its frightening possibilities and its
sirens' call of seemingly chaotic life-affirming zest. '
# Greek title: Asketeke ('Salvatores Dei') couldn't find any
# copies of this book on the nett, otherwise i would've given
# a link to same here.
#> These would be 6th and 7th (or so) on my short list.
#> 8th: Principia Discordia.
while I can appreciate the inclusion, I don't much see that the book
mentioned immediately above has to do with a supplanting or addition
to facets of the Jehovah-Jesus God (which is what *I* would be using
as a criteria for 'Bibles'.
#>#> Thomas Jefferson presumably pasted together his own bible.
#>#
#># he did. it is very lovely.
the infernal Wednesday-Tezcat borrowed mine and ne'er returned! ;>
it is a superior collage-work. inspirational. "The Jefferson Bible".
#> you can check out stuff like "The Jesus of Poets and Prophets"
#> too if you like Christian stuff. :>
#
# Is this the (a?) title he gave to his work?
different book, but it runs across the spectrum of Jesus figures.
again, when I'm back at the house, I'll give you the details if
you haven't found them at a good resource. I don't think that I
put that up online yet and don't know if the book is OP (it may
well be -- which means you may find some at Zshops -- I'll check:
ok found it. you may wish to add Zshops to your searches for books
online (because it includes O(ut of)P(rint) texts too):
Roberts, Richard (ASIN: 0804611718)
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/search-handle-form/002-2619387-5202438).
shit, that may be a difficult book to come by. the unpopular
legend-tracings and lie-compilations often get buried within
the brief attention between generations as to historicity.
here's the Zshops Adv Search page:
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/subst/search/fixed-search.html/002-2619387-5202438
which has been extremely helpful to me in locating hard-to-find items.
there are a few antiquarians which are comparable, such as Abebooks.com.
tyaginator