Discussion:
the alt.satanism FAQ
(too old to reply)
tyaginator
2004-11-19 20:04:56 UTC
Permalink
50041119 viii om

hi Tani!

"Tani Jantsang" <***@SPAMpost.com>:
# ...you leave out information

I'm just postin' the FAQs, ma'am, just the FAQs.
do you got an alt.satanism FAQ you want posted?

did you notice how *many* alt.satanism FAQs there
are now? you only responded to one of them. ;>

# about what is now, pretty much, a bigger org than
# these others - with many org connected to it. Why
# do you do that?

<snip>

I don't post information about supposed organizations.
I just post FAQs which may have reference to such,
and may be published by supposed organizations.

if you're not listed in these FAQs, then you should
contact the EDITOR OR AUTHOR OF THESE FILES in order
to get their content updated [though I may insert an
update if something changes in the minutiae].

please advise.

tyaginator
Tani Jantsang
2004-11-20 20:28:24 UTC
Permalink
Hey there, see in.
Post by tyaginator
50041119 viii om
hi Tani!
# ...you leave out information
I'm just postin' the FAQs, ma'am, just the FAQs.
do you got an alt.satanism FAQ you want posted?
did you notice how *many* alt.satanism FAQs there
are now? you only responded to one of them. ;>
Oh, I only saw one of them. Anyway, I posted our info - if you want to get
our info in proper faq form (question/answer) it's on our website, front
page.
Post by tyaginator
# about what is now, pretty much, a bigger org than
# these others - with many org connected to it. Why
# do you do that?
<snip>
I don't post information about supposed organizations.
I just post FAQs which may have reference to such,
and may be published by supposed organizations.
if you're not listed in these FAQs, then you should
contact the EDITOR OR AUTHOR OF THESE FILES in order
to get their content updated [though I may insert an
update if something changes in the minutiae].
please advise.
Hmm, ok, well, I post the main info about our org in that - and the FAQ
with questoins and answers is on our wesite. It really maybe doesn't matter
since not one of our members got into the org from anywhere on usenet -
which is good :)

I don't know who the editors of the FAQs are - I thought it was you.
Post by tyaginator
tyaginator
tyaginator
2004-11-21 01:02:44 UTC
Permalink
50041120 viii om

hi Tani!

tyaginator:
#> I'm just postin' the FAQs, ma'am, just the FAQs.
#> do you got an alt.satanism FAQ you want posted?

it sounds like you have a 'Satanic Reds FAQ', which
isn't something I'm handling right now. I also do
not notice any of your pages which specifically and
only addresses Satanism or Satan, though the Sat An
materials seem to have been included within another
page about the Dark Force.

#> did you notice how *many* alt.satanism FAQs there
#> are now? you only responded to one of them. ;>

"Tani Jantsang" <***@SPAMpost.com>:
# Oh, I only saw one of them.

there are *twelve* or so alt.satanism FAQs.
it's one of the only usenet newsgroups with
so many competing FAQs. it's humourous. ;>

# Anyway, I posted our info - if you want to get our
# info in proper faq form (question/answer) it's on
# our website, front page.

oh no, I'm only collecting alt.satanism FAQs.

#> I don't post information about supposed organizations.
#> I just post FAQs which may have reference to such,
#> and may be published by supposed organizations.
#>
#> if you're not listed in these FAQs, then you should
#> contact the EDITOR OR AUTHOR OF THESE FILES in order
#> to get their content updated [though I may insert an
#> update if something changes in the minutiae].

# Hmm, ok, well, I post the main info about our org in
# that - and the FAQ with questoins and answers is on
# our wesite....

it doesn't sound related. the CoS and ToS and other
Satanic orgs post their own FAQs here, not me. :>
where there is cross-over it is because somebody or
other decided that an alt.satanism FAQ from their
org might be fun. you can do one too if you like and
I'll format it for reposting should you desire.
your writing style is recognizable and spicy.

# I don't know who the editors of the FAQs are -
# I thought it was you.

all of them are properly attributed. try:

http://www.faqs.org/

and look for alt.satanism and you'll probably find
all of them and you'll see what I mean. :>

tyaginator
Tani Jantsang
2004-11-21 04:40:06 UTC
Permalink
OH, heh, ok, thanks for that info. I never saw that many faqs on here.
Well, we have the info posted now - and it's on the site so - that's
probably fine. :)

Nothing inside. Uh, what is alt.xyzzy? I'll check that.
Post by tyaginator
50041120 viii om
hi Tani!
#> I'm just postin' the FAQs, ma'am, just the FAQs.
#> do you got an alt.satanism FAQ you want posted?
it sounds like you have a 'Satanic Reds FAQ', which
isn't something I'm handling right now. I also do
not notice any of your pages which specifically and
only addresses Satanism or Satan, though the Sat An
materials seem to have been included within another
page about the Dark Force.
#> did you notice how *many* alt.satanism FAQs there
#> are now? you only responded to one of them. ;>
# Oh, I only saw one of them.
there are *twelve* or so alt.satanism FAQs.
it's one of the only usenet newsgroups with
so many competing FAQs. it's humourous. ;>
# Anyway, I posted our info - if you want to get our
# info in proper faq form (question/answer) it's on
# our website, front page.
oh no, I'm only collecting alt.satanism FAQs.
#> I don't post information about supposed organizations.
#> I just post FAQs which may have reference to such,
#> and may be published by supposed organizations.
#>
#> if you're not listed in these FAQs, then you should
#> contact the EDITOR OR AUTHOR OF THESE FILES in order
#> to get their content updated [though I may insert an
#> update if something changes in the minutiae].
# Hmm, ok, well, I post the main info about our org in
# that - and the FAQ with questoins and answers is on
# our wesite....
it doesn't sound related. the CoS and ToS and other
Satanic orgs post their own FAQs here, not me. :>
where there is cross-over it is because somebody or
other decided that an alt.satanism FAQ from their
org might be fun. you can do one too if you like and
I'll format it for reposting should you desire.
your writing style is recognizable and spicy.
# I don't know who the editors of the FAQs are -
# I thought it was you.
http://www.faqs.org/
and look for alt.satanism and you'll probably find
all of them and you'll see what I mean. :>
tyaginator
nagasiva
2004-11-21 05:01:18 UTC
Permalink
"Tani Jantsang" <***@SPAMpost.com>:
# OH, heh, ok, thanks for that info. I never saw that many faqs on here.
# Well, we have the info posted now - and it's on the site so - that's
# probably fine. :)
#
# Nothing inside. Uh, what is alt.xyzzy? I'll check that.

hehe, occult reference. where to find things having to do with magic,
discussion of library science surrounding arcane subjects, etc.

tyaginator
catherine yronwode
2004-11-21 01:51:16 UTC
Permalink
Tyagi - feel free to hand this to the FAQ person
Hi, Tani --

I think this post of yours is not a FAQ. That is, it is not organized
in the traditional form of frequently answered questions, with answers
from a particular viewpoint.

The 11 different alt.satanism FAQs that siva archives and reposts
monthly all follow the conventional internet FAQ format. Please
understand that although he may have archived some Satanic Reds
material that you previously posted to usenet, he does not repost
monthly to alt.satanism any reference docs and FAQs that are not
alt.satanism FAQs.

I suggest that siva *would* archive and repost an alt.satanism FAQ
written from a Satanic Reds viewpoint if you would produce one that
was in the conventional FAQ format.

Cordially,

cat yronwode

Free Magick Spells Archive ---- http://www.luckymojo.com/spells.html
Tani Jantsang
2004-11-21 04:42:11 UTC
Permalink
Hi, just found this alt.xyzzy thing. Well, the updated one I posted is in
more of a faq format in that there are questions, answers and clear
explanations on it.

I'll repost it here. This is good enough, as I previously said :)

SATANIC REDS - SOCIAL REALISTS INFORMATION www.geocities.com/satanicreds/
or http://satanicreds.says.it

*********************************************

Unity in the Adamantine Esoteric Tradition of the Boundless Darkness, what
we call the Dark Tradition - Tani Jantsang

This, what we present in our organization and sell monographs on, is an
Adamantine Doctrine said universally to have been The Doctrine of the prior
world age, the 4th world age, the Satya Yuga. Some systems categorize the
Yugas in another order. Pesh Hun transmitted it to the people in the Kali
Yuga. Blavatsky was told some of this by someone in India, for sure. But
she distorted the darker aspects of it. She distorted the Hindu Creation
Hymn, which is similar to our "Darkness is One."

What absolutely legitimizes the entire Esoteric Tradition and all the
related cultures (plural) that had it and still have it, as a whole, or in
parts is their EMANATION doctrine about the Boundless Darkness, No Name,
Thatness, Aditi, Ain Soph, Apeiron,etc. and the Flame, Viraj, Dorje, Vajra,
Logos, etc. that is in that All Pervading Darkness - and the resulting
doctrine of Being and Becoming. This is not exclusively in the Eastern
lands, since the "western civilization" Hellenic pre-Socratic traditions
also have these doctrines of the Apeiron (the One) and the emamation, and
the Five Daimones - but that is universally agreed upon by every scholar to
be very Eastern in tone and intent - and that is where Pythagoreanism comes
from. It is far more ancient than Babylon, also. It existed in India as
the standard Shivaite Doctrine at least as far back as 7,000 BC.

THIS is the unifying concept.

1. Unknown - Boundless Darkness, Thatness. - That which is Arupa (formless)

2. Non-Being and Being. The intermediate being-state is BECOMING. Thatness
does this out of Necessity.

3. Emanation of a Light, Flame, Vajra, Viraj, Dorje, Logos, etc. as a 7-fold
Formed and Ordered substance that BECAME all material things (matter/energy,
light/sound, space/time). Some see this as the "one point" that did the Big
Bang.

4. Infusion of the Darkness as a 5-fold formless chaotic "force" of some
kind, into the 7 which, in turn, drives all things on to ever greater change
and diversity, relentlessly driving all things on to change, to BECOME.

This is very much unlike a creation doctrine; it is very much unlike
paganism with many gods and goddess and half-godling "children of" the
gods/goddesses. It is not dualistic at all. It is NOT for everyone! One is
either Of It, or they are not. It's something some people seem to intuit.
Nothing more or less than that. Repeat, it is not dualistic - so if you
find some later dualism mixed into the pure doctrine, it is a later
addition.

In addition, there are elaborations that are identical: how that darkness is
always categorized in 5 distinct ways as it acts on "the nature" around us
and how the Flame is within us as kundalini, Vajra, logos, etc. How the
Flame comes into living beings from the All Pervading Darkness, goes through
living things as a Flame or kind of "Light" and then returns to that One
Darkness. How the All Pervading Darkness itself never increases or decreases
all the time this goes on. There are also very similar doctrines about what
lacks this Flame within, in all these traditions. There is no judgement on
such people. It is just that the Tradition is not told to them - hence it is
esoteric. (Times have changed). I could say it this way: Aditi, Vach, Viraj
are the same things, recognizable to anyone that knows this, as Kether,
Binah, Hochmah. Same things.

This is one solid tradition amongst MANY whole cultures, parts of cultures
and peoples. It is universally said to have been The Adamantine Doctrine by
which all society was governened in a "Golden Age" during the Satya Yuga,
which is a prior world age. It is distinct from the trinity traditions,
distinct from the dualistic traditions that oppose the light from the dark.
It is distinct from paganism. It is distinct from the solar cults. It is
NOT a salvation doctrine nor is there any kind of notion of a "personal
Being" in the One Darkness.

It has nothing to do with rebelliousness or the mundane world of the herd
and hypocrisy. It has nothing to do with that pro or con - all that is
irrelevant. If you want rules, make them up. If you follow rules, then
someone else made them up. That's how societies work. How societies work has
nothing to do with the Doctrine. The need "in itself" for rules is contrary
to the Dharmas (the five wisdoms, truths). But rules are needed in SOCIETIES
and we all live in societies, behaviors in these societies are set as a
standard of "acceptability" by the people IN those societies; there is
nothing divine about such rules or societal laws or morals or ethics; this
has NOTHING to do with The Doctrine. There is a qualified difference. A
Ngagspa (Dark Doctrine Adept) can behave one way in some remote area of
Etsen Gol. That is, you would see the outer behavior of this person, you'd
see him doing things. Let him come to the USA and live in the city. The
Ngaspa ADAPTS easily enough. You'd see him doing other behaviors outwardly.
Inwardly, he is the same Ngagspa. Outer behavior has nothing to do with the
Inner Being. Following speeding laws on interstates, which the Ngagspa would
do if he came here, has nothing to do with The Doctrine.

This is perfectly clear in the Esoteric Tradition whether you get it from
the Dark Tradition section on our website or from a university or from an
Adept or whether one might tell you some of this, as someone told Blavatsky
(and she garbled it all up and tried to change it....) It does NOT MATTER if
confused persons, overly cerebral people or anyone else doesn't get it.
Glaring and screaming out is the EMANATION doctrine and the BOUNDLESS
DARKNESS concept - the Flame that is in that Darkness - from there comes
Being and Becoming. Those things are OUTSIDE of Judeo-Christianity-Islam for
the most part. These are the three MAIN things that bind these traditions
into one Esoteric Tradition: Boundless Darkness, Flame in Darkness,
Being/Becoming.

These THREE things unify it into one Esoteric Tradition, in addition to the
the actual teachings of the 7 and the 5 and The One, usually with focus on
the FIVE and The One Darkness. They are LHP traditions though they also
encompass RHP since the two are never opposed: they compliment each other
when they are properly understood and practiced.

At least we have unified what belongs together as a core doctrine. I don't
expect a very cerebral person stuck in the Judeo-Christian paradigm to hear
a single "note" of what I said. And I'm not into explaining harmony to tone
deaf people. It's a waste of time. The LHP does not work that way. We
compare this to music: you either hear the tune, or you don't. It is not
like conversion doctrines or teaching a person to read notes and put their
fingers in the right places to make music. It is not like what has come to
be thought of as RHP. Though that in itself is very confused and misnamed.
To think that LHP is only about breaking taboos is a mistake, especially
since some societies don't have taboos; they have LAWS and if you break them
you go to jail. (And by the way, NO satanic organization that tries to make
LHP into "taboo breaking" advocates breaking the law!)

If you hear it, feel it as if you've always known it, it definitely CALLS to
you, you can't even resist it. If you don't hear it, I suggest you don't
concern yourself with it and continue to PURSUE YOUR OWN things and be happy
with what you have. To not do that is to participate further in non-being.

Obviously, in history, pieces of this One Doctrine have been absconded with,
merged with things it was never a part of, such as the Logos cults - and
then the Sun Cults of old. SAT and Sanatana: these concepts got confused
with Saturn the planet - and then confused with the Sun. Some of the
Doctrine got merged into the Dark Goddess concept - dualized - as what I'd
imagine to be a reaction to the Solar Patriarchal peoples ruling those
areas. In the Kali Yuga, this is bound to happen to anything from the Satya
Yuga. No matter. None of that is relevant. We present the traditions of the
Boundless Darkness in a very unadorned and pure form. That is relevant.

Recently, supermassive black holes have been found - and now the conception
of the all-destructive black hole has changed into one where these black
holes have a lot to do with CREATION of galaxies, not just destruction. How
would a Dark Adept see these things, since saying that such existed has been
part of the doctrine anyway? As the fingers of the Boundless Darkness, the
hand of the Sat Itself doing what it always does: folding/unfolding,
push/pull. We would say that the "many" black holes one sees at the center
of galaxies are really One Thing - made to look like many things in many
places and times by the Illusion of Space/time. That is what we'd say.

*********************************************
SATANIC REDS ORGANIZATION:

See also "Are You a Satanic Red."
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/s-red.html

Satanic Reds exists as an alternative to the "Satanism" that is so tied up
with Judeo-Christianity. It is, in fact, a Left Hand Path organization as
far as occult doctrines go. The doctrines are wholly outside of the
Christian world view. The concepts of becoming (xeper), an intermediate
state between non-being and being that all things in the cosmos exist in a
state of, i.e, all things are Becoming and Inner Will (thelema) are in these
Doctrines, and always were from ancient times. But the wailing angst of
people rebelling against their own Christian backgrounds is wholly left
out - it's not in SR, it doesn't exist.

The guiding principles of Satanic Reds, aside from the sociopolitical
guidelines, are shown in "The Nine SaTanic Postulates," which reflect the
pure Dark Tradition, which is wholly independent of modern neo-Satanism and
the sentiments of the proponents of modern neo-Satanism. Please read these
documents on this website, I will also present them here:
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/9-sat-tan.html

Satan has always been seen as the Dark Lord, Dark Principle, or Dark Force
(excluding the unique view the original Hebrews had of "The Satan"),
Seeing and above all feeling this force/principle/etc. as permeating and
motivating all of nature, Satanists have revered this as either an Atheistic
force, Deistic Principle, or Theistic Deity. Incorporated into the Dark
Traditions are all things that touch on it or focus on it: Hermeticism,
certain aspects of the Kaballa, Taoism, certain whole groups of Tantra,
Shivaism and Vedanta wherefrom we get the words Sat and Tan. It is
interesting that the root word Sat in modern Sanskrit means Truth of the
inner kind. In the West this got inverted to mean the Lie, or Satan as the
Father of Lies. This could be one of the earliest known examples of
cultural inversion.

For more on types of Satanism, see
http://www.geocities.com/go_darkness/god-essence-docs.html

*********************************************

The Nine SaTanic Postulates

Written By Comrades in Satanic Reds (taken from the actual Dark Doctrines
Monographs published and sold - all of this and details is contained therein
and anyone contributing to it got it from there!)

1. Satan is the "dark force" that permeates all of nature and motivates all
things to act according to their inner nature. The Boundless Darkness Itself
is SAT. The ACTION of emanating out of, unfolding out of, springing forth,
is TAN. The motivator and the act of motivating all things are together:
Satan. Satan is that which is the origin of all and the unmoved mover, and
it is described by both the unfolding and the thing unfolded: Satan

2. All things have a beginning where all was one.

3.The "big bang" came from a spark within the one Dark Presence and all that
results from the "big bang" is permeated by the Dark Force. The universe was
emanated by this force going from Chaos-Dark into Cosmos-Light.

4. All things, over time in the cosmos, become separate and change
without ceasing to change.

5. All things are constantly motivated to change according to environment,
and then they change the environment by being in it, of it: there is a
dialectical interaction. If they do not do this they perish and go into
dissolution; but this is not destruction; it is only more change.

6. All things are constantly motivated to change by inner urge. This is
"Self Becoming" or "Self Evolving." All beings everywhere have it. Most
living things have this solely and together with their own species, as if
linked. When the individual becomes into, the species becomes into; in fact,
large groups of similar living things speciate in this manner and diversify.
A thing can not become what it is not already at it's inner core, at it's
fundamental essence, nor can it resist becoming "what it is" as that center
of itself moves forward in time. The thing "becomes into" what it is. One
can have inner truth of what they are and actively increase their
potentialities, or one can flow with what one is. If one resists it or tries
to become, in the inner sense, what one is not, one will become Nothing -
Klippoth.

7. All things have an individual characteristic, a unique identity that
defines what they are and become. They are a singularly occurring event in
time/space.

8. All things are ultimately connected, even if they appear to be separate,
in the great web of life.

9. And all this is the esoteric meaning of "Do as Thou Wilt" for that truly
is the whole of the Law, Cosmic Law and SAT-TAN-ic Law. The joyful act of
Doing and Becoming-Into is Love. It is experienced as Joy. Being is Joy. Joy
radiates Love just as the sun radiates light.

It follows from these that Satanists do what is best for themselves using
foresight. Satanists demand freedom to govern their own lives, again, using
foresight since, as mammals/primates, we are not solitary animals
biologically. Satanists oppose those that would combat the principles of the
cosmos. Man is just another animal: Self-inner-truth-Wisdom is knowing what
kind of animal a human is. - Satan represents undefiled wisdom, Sattva, and
the desire and Will to Know the Truth: Satya. All animals practice
Indulgence according to their Kind; they have Vitality, and they are capable
of Knowing the Inner-Truth of their own Beings, the Mystery of their own
Beingness. Satanic Humans, falling into the category of mammals/primates,
are Kind to those who deserve it and have responsibility of Self and are
responsible to others of like kind: automatically; they are what they are:
social animals. That is the kind of animals Satanic humans are: Zoös /Eros.
They are OF NATURE. What rebels against its own nature is Klippothic. What
lives in Unreality and desires the Lie is klippothic. The Klippoth is the
enemy of Being - and since Being is Joy, the klippoth is the enemy of Joy.
The Klippoth can be defined as the Unlife - Thanatos.

Advice: AVOID KLIPPOTHS. They are killers of Joy.

While this may sound like Big Bang Theory and evolutionary biology to some
of our modern century atheists, consider that these concepts are ancient.
It is one of the fundamental tenets of the Dark Tradition that would state
that all those modern-day geniuses who "discovered" these things, already
HAD this knowledge within them. They had to, to think up the ideas in the
first place before they set out to prove them using modern technology. Let
us say, they were inspired. And they too had to battle tooth and nail
against the monotheistic religious forces, such as Christianity, to even get
their ideas out. Consider how Darwin and evolution are still being fought
against by Christian Creationists. We have always had an Emanation Doctrine
and primary in this Doctrine is that there is/was a Boundless Darkness IN
WHICH a Blazing Flame burned at a time when the All was One. The Blazing
Flame flashed out and Became All Things.

*********************************************
WHY DO WE CALL OURSELVES SATANIC REDS?

This and Some Other Questions

We have run into a few questions about this title and some of the titles of
our opening guidelines, about the meanings of the "dreaded" symbols we use.
We will answer these questions here, directly.

Some people have wondered about the name we've chosen for this organization,
despite what we thought were very clear guidelines and explanations in Are
you a Satanic Red. http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/s-red.html

Are you Satanists?

The answer to that is yes and no - because it would entirely depend on what
you mean by the word "Satanist." First of all, using the word "Satan,"
Carducci, in his Hymn To Satan,
http://apodion.com/vad/article.php?id=&aid=93 echoed the same concepts and
ideas we echo for Social Realism; and Michael Bakunin regarded Satan in the
same manner as us when we speak of Social Realism. When Jules Michelet wrote
Satanism and Witchcraft, a book that the majority of people interested in
the LHP or Wicca had back before the late 1960's, it was about exploited
peasants rallying around a mythic-heroic figure: Satan - in opposition to an
oppresive Christian political feudalism of that time period.

No matter what Left Hand Path you follow, or even if it's some alternate
religion magical Right Hand Path, no matter what you or your culture call
it, the political forces of reaction present in some countries call it ALL
Satanism or Satanic. They consider Wicca, most of Hinduism, all of Tantra,
Taoism, most of New Age, Voodoo and even, in some places, the Jewish
religion and Atheism to be Satanic, too; depending on which fanatics you
speak to. Some fanatics call the Pope in the Vatican "the Beast" and
consider the Catholic religion "a Satanic Cult." Some fanatics consider
Mohammed, the Prophet of the Moslims, to be a "Satanic Terrorist." And so
forth. So there is the RADICAL reason for us to call ourselves Satanic: it's
radical and in your face. So, even followers of mainstream monotheistic
religions are not immune from the brand "Satanic."

What is the Satan that SR espouses?

The Satan in the Dark Tradition we espouse is Sat and Tan, Being and
Becoming, and we don't accept the Judeo-Christian concepts for "satan" at
all. We are making a pun out of Sat and Tan and we are the first
organization to ever do that.

This system is from an ancient tradition that is 1. genuinely Left Hand
Path, 2. has a Boundless Darkness as the Prime Force, 3. has a "flaming
light" within the Darkness that flashes out and becomes all things due to
the Urge of the Boundless Darkness, 4. has that Dark Flame as being within
people, IF they let it flow. Only people with that Flame within can self
actualize, if they choose to do that. Here are examples: Sat: The one
ever-present Reality in the infinite world; the divine essence which IS, but
cannot be said to "exist" because it is Absoluteness, or Being-ness Itself.
Satta: the One and Sole Existence. Sattva: Understanding; quiescence in
divine knowledge; a Bodhisattva is a person that possesses this. Satya:
Supreme Truth. Satya Yuga: the Golden Age of the age of truth, actually the
first Yuga, but often equated with the Trita Yuga (last age). Tan means to
"stretch forth" to "become." Words such as Tantra, Tanmatri have the root
word "tan" in them.

As for Sat and Tan, legitimate words: It is highly possible that the Hebrews
committed a cultural inversion on the word Sat, since they did have contact
with Persians who definitely DID invert ALL the ancient Sanskrit (Shivaite)
concepts. The Hebrews did not invert the word Tan because the Tanaim, in
Hebrew, are those who "know what the angels know." The Tanaim are the True
Magi. This type of Sat/Tan Dark Doctrines Satanism can be seen in various
organizations that run in various ways, localized or loosely connected. This
type of Satanism includes the Pythagorean system on the pentacle (the
pentalphas), which correspond to the Five Dharmas, and the pentamychos
system, which corresponds to the fearsome or towo aspects that defend the
Dharmas or Five Principles. The Five principles, as seen in nature, are
parts of what the Dark Force IN Nature does, as it permeates and motivates
all of nature. More on exactly what we define for our organization can be
seen in The Nine Postulates above.

Does SR regard people that feel this dark force and flame as better than
those who do not?

No. Some people have good ears for music. Some people are tone deaf. It's a
matter of tone deaf people not trying to be musicians. They are not, as
whole human beings, lesser or inferior to those born with good ears for
pitch and harmony - but they aren't musical. At all. That is the only
analogy we can give because it fits.

But why REDS? Why do you call yourselves Red?

Red has always been associated with "The Radical." It's also "Red Devil."
Any Communist or Socialist looking at our guidelines in Are You A Satanic
Red would call us some kind of capitalists!

Well then is the SR capitalist or socialist?

We are sort of both. Dirigist capitalism is a form of Socialism! We speak of
the Bill of Rights and the New Deal. Forces of reaction have made absurd
slanders against programs that benefited all hard-working people. They have
many times called President F.D. Roosevelt a RED! Well, if F. D. Roosevelt
is a Red, then so are we!

The point is this: any kind of social planning necessary to have in a whole
nation, especially a modern one, that serves to benefit the hard-working
people, present workers or retired workers, gets labeled Red. Even liberals
are called Red! Anyone who is TOLERANT is labeled a Red! Anyone who is in
favor of women's rights, feminism, gay rights, and against racism is called
a Red! In fact, anyone in favor of tolerance toward alternative religions is
called a Red or a "pinko commie." This is not new! And so, we call ourselves
REDS!

What is the hammer and sickle in your sigil?

The hammer is a symbol of labor and the sickle is a symbol of farming. These
joined together represent industry and agriculture united. The two symbols
appear in the Pentagon in the center of our Pentacle. That Pentagon is a
House; it is not inverted; it is the correct way and, in the Dark Doctrine,
represents YOU. But in a worldly sense, it would represent the world and the
world runs due to agriculture and industry. Our House is a house of farmers
and workers - all working and making society run. What is a big corporation
without the little workers? It's an empty building. What is a big
corporation that hires little workers outside the nation? It's a group of
people that have increased unemployment within the country. What do they
make to sell us? Who is going to buy things when no one can afford things?
The House must be put in order and have a strong Foundation, or it will
fall. Nations need a strong, self-sufficient agrarian and industrial base if
they are to survive as healthy nations.

What do you use the pentacle for?

The Five Points of the Pentacle, or rather the "Blazing Angles" that radiate
from the House represent things in the Dark Doctrine. Starting from the top
right point, going clockwise, and making this very simple: 1. Our Roots in
the sense of physical generations. 2. Justice implying natural
stratification. 3. The Anima or Vajra Root of our individual Being and our
animal nature. 4. Our Inner Well-being or Psyche. 5. Nature in us and around
us and in which we live. The X that is formed by the crossed lines where the
top point of the inner Pentagon (House) is, represents Heart, Feelings,
Eros. These are elaborated upon in great detail in Monographs we sell on the
Left Hand Path Traditions, see below.

FDRoosevelt was an American President. Is this for Americans only?

No. We mention President Roosevelt and this means very little to foreign
members, some of whom already have a great system where hard working people
get a good wage and guaranteed health care. They have to realize that their
countries weren't always like that and that progressive thinkers and
planners can be replaced by corporate despots that don't give a damn about
working people or farmers. Feudalism can easily return. Well paid workers
can be replaced by low paid scabs from other places. Countries can be turned
into Global Plantations very easily. Transnational and Multinational
Corporations are going about doing that right now.

You are not like other satanic organizations out there at all. Why not?

Satanic Reds exists as an alternative to the "Satanism" that is so tied up
with Christianity or silly horror-show antics. It is, in fact, a Left Hand
Path organization as far as occult doctrines go. The doctrines are wholly
outside of the more familiar Judeo-Christian world view. The concepts of
becoming (xeper) and Inner Will (thelema) are in these Doctrines, and always
were from ancient times. The wailing angst of people rebelling against their
own Christian backgrounds is wholly left out - it's not in SR, it doesn't
exist, we do not cater to that type of person.

Isn't some of that Dark Tradition Satanic stuff syncretistic or a synthesis
of many things?

Yes. What we present, especially in the Monographs sold by Marsh (listed
below), is the Dark Tradition stripped of cultural baggage that was added
much later by various cultures. This tradition is not in all cultures, but
it is in some cultures in part or in whole, and we do write about these and
explain it in detail without degenerating into the abstract or the
hypermystical.

Incorporated into the Dark Traditions are all things that touch on it or
focus on it: Hermeticism, certain aspects of the Kaballa, Taoism, certain
whole schools of Tantra, Shivaism and Vedanta wherefrom we get the words Sat
and Tan. It is interesting that the root word Sat in modern Sanskrit means
Truth of the inner kind. In the West this got inverted to mean the Lie, or
Satan as the Father of Lies. This could be one of the earliest known
examples of cultural inversion, as just explained.

Satan has always been seen as the Dark Lord, Dark Principle, or Dark Force.
Does this tie it back to the Christian or horror-show view?

No. The Sat is Being/Truth. Mahakala is "Dark Lord of Transcendent
Awareness." Sri Kala Chakra is "Lord Time Devourer." Karabog is "Black God"
perceived more as a non-centralized force or spirit in everything. Our use
of "Dark Lord" or "dark force" ties back to these things. Seeing, and above
all feeling this force/principle/etc. as permeating and motivating all of
nature, real Satanists and others have revered this as either an Atheistic
force, Deistic Principle, or Theistic Deity. Keep in mind that the Flame
that burns in us and flows as kundalini comes from this Boundless Darkness
and returns to it. We do revere our own Flame!

Do you have any roots in Chaos Magic?

No, none. They sort of have their roots in us from way back then! SURPRISE!
We used to have the entire Dark Tradition "translated" into a kind of
HPL/Derleth/et.al. mythos lingo that various non-public groups used. Many
Chaos Magicians caught the trend. Some of the old timers in that movement do
see a strong similarity with some of the Dark Tradition information. See
Hermeto-Tantrik Mythos for an interesting read, if you are familiar with
that. It is here: http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/hermet-mythos.html

Do you have any roots in Thelema?

No, though there are definite similarities that Themelites in the Satanic
Reds Organization recognize and have written about. Crowley did study some
Eastern Traditions, therefore there will be similarities as there will be
seen by some that have studied Gurdieff.

Do you have any roots in Theosophy?

No. though there are a few Theosophists in our organization that think we
present the Real Deal in a very Pure form with nothing hidden away.
Blavatsky certainly saw some of the same Doctrines that the Satanic Reds
know of, but she altered them to suit her own Right Hand Path purposes and
either put some Hinayana into them or Christianized them.

Do you have any roots in the Witchcraft or Wicca movement?

No, though there are Wiccans in our organization that resonate to the "feel"
of it.

Do you have any roots in LaVeyan Satanism?

No, absolutely none, though LaVey did hand out two high titles to two of the
founders of Satanic Reds, but these people never used these titles on
anything they ever wrote or sold.

Do you have any roots in the Temple of Set?

No, none, though there are some Setians that see a strong similarity between
their Set concept - and The Sat. We both have the Doctrine of Becoming in
our organizations.

Do you have roots in Atheism?

No. though some atheists read our stuff and translate it easily into big
bang science and biology.

Are you a hierarchical organization with a hierarchy of titles?

No, already explained in "Are you a Satanic Red."

Are you communists or socialists?

No, already explained in "Are you a Satanic Red."

Is there anything a person has to do if they join?

No, but practical suggestions are made in "Are you a Satanic Red."

Why do you insist on 10 political statements for membership qualification
and not on a belief system?

Because those 10 statements are political in the practical sense, but on a
much higher or inner sense, they are spiritual. People who tend to agree
with self serving things that also serve others, have a good, balanced
character.

Why have you made so much of this information public to people?

Some people come to feel something about their own Flame or Logos, if they
feel anything at all. For those that feel it and perceive it as Ultimately
Bright, there are plenty of organizations for them to join, plenty of books
for them to read. For instance, it would be reasonable for a person raised
Christian to think, "Oh, that Light must be Christ." We have no information
that they would be interested in.

Then again, there are quite a few people that perceive their own Flame from
its origin - and that origin is like Abyssal Darkness to their perception.
This is no problem for people who are from cultures that know what that is.
But in the West, for instance, a Christian, Jew or Moslem or even a Wiccan
or Pagan might come to the conclusion that, "This must be Satan." What
happens next? They try to find out information about this Satan and run into
the very familiar monotheistic version of that - which doesn't fit what they
feel at all. They might get on the internet and do a search for "Satanism"
or "Satan" and, prior to SR's information being available, they'd run into
LaVeyan Satanism, which is public, or possibly run into the Temple of Set,
which does not make its information so public at all. They might run into
Atheistic organizations, but they don't feel like Atheists. They'd probably
find only organizations that are like those organizations and nothing else.
They may have joined some of these organizations and found a hierarchy in
them; they may have not been raised to any higher level of awareness when it
comes to inner-being at all, but dragged down instead. Now they can find us.
That was the intent. The information is there, whether one joins the SR or
not. It's there. Available.

However, in the time that this information has been available, we have found
that it is not only people into Satanism that have been helped by this
information at all.

What happens if the sincere Christian who wishes to remain a Christian
perceives the Logos as more Dark than Light? What is that Christian to do?
Feel bad about it? Before SR was around with information on this Darkness
and this Light, that is probably exactly what the Christian did - feel very
bad. The information we have is informative not only to people who wish to
get into "the Darkness," but it is informative to a great many people that
it never intended to be informative to - people who want to really know
about that Light. As one Christian said, "What said, 'Let there BE light'
must not have himself BEEN light!" This was a Christian, still a Christian,
that felt the acute presense of God while reading "The Darkness is One,"
when it spoke of the "Ray of Light flashing out" - i.e., the Logos - and
what that Ray of Light became.

"The Darkness is One" is here
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/dark-one.html

Do you have a hierarchy of titles, such as High Priest, Magus, Priest, etc?

We have no High Priests, no Priests, no Reverends no such titles unless you
have one from somewhere else that you wish to bring with you. Amongst
ourselves, however, these titles mean nothing. The only title everyone in SR
gets is People's Commissar.

What if some members don't get along with other members or have
disagreements? Can they get kicked out for that? Do the founders step in?

If you don't get along with another comrade, do not come to the founders
with complaints. We aren't your bosses or your parents. You are expected to
be mature, responsible adults. Deal with it yourself: The only suggestion
is: "agree to disagree and avoid each other."

If you have some personal disagreement with a founder, the same applies.
Agree to disagree. Don't think that because a founder thinks "XYZ" that
"XYZ" applies to the organization itself when the subject of disagreement is
outside of the confines of the organization.

We are all People's Commissars! We are COMRADES! That means that we all
agree on the 10 points in "Are You a Satanic Red" and work to attain them
within our own countries, since all countries are very different. It does
not mean that we will all like or love each other or get along, it does not
mean that we agree about religious or non-religious doctrines and beliefs.
There obviously will be ten points of agreement, since the people involved
joined the SR in the first place. In an organization where there are no
bosses and everyone is his or her own boss, expect a variety of strong
opinions. Expect debates, too. DO NOT FLAME each other if you join the
egroup. Discuss, state your point. Opinions on the 10 things required for
membership in the SR org would be in agreement. However, situations in
various countries would not be the same and might result in interpretations
of the 10 points other than your own.

If you engage in chatting on the egroup, where anything and everything gets
talked about and people get to know each other, don't complain if you don't
like another's posts. If you don't like them, don't read them or just
killfile them. Do not run to a founder about it. Pestering a founder about
such trivia might result in a comrade being asked to deal with it on his/her
own or leave.

Can members make a magazine for the organization on their own?

If you want to make a magazine and sell it, this is your own responsibility.
The Founders can and would notify all members that you are looking for
articles; but it's up to them to write them and hand them in. No one would
be told to do it. It's up to them. Basically and truly: Do As Thou Wilt!

Members can make their own covens or grottos for magickal workings. But how
does that work in connection to the SR org itself?

Some Comrades already did this and these are listed in "SR Linked Orgs" now.
These are organizations with their own members in them, some of whom are not
members of the SR. It's up to these organizations to keep track of their own
membership and run their own organizations, covens, or grottos. If you make
a coven or group, you are solely responsible for it. One would expect the
group to engage in whatever magickal tradition they agree on. Hopefully,
they'd also work toward the Social Realism in the ten statements in "Are You
a Satanic Red."

Why don't you charge money for membership?

Who would charge it and who would get paid? There are technical issues also,
are we religious or are we political? Marsh does charge money for the Dark
Tradition Monographs. If any member chooses to make a hard copy magazine, we
would expect that comrade to charge money because it costs money to do
something like that.

Are you against other Satanic organizations or any other organizations?

We are not against any of the various Satanic organizations out there; if
they are Deistic in the sense that they see Satan as a dark force in Nature,
or Theistic where they see Satan as an actual being such as Lucifer or Set
or Mephistopheles, or strictly atheist with Left Hand Path tradition more
akin to martial arts, as long as they leave us be, do not harass or libel us
and don't advocate SRA-type nonsense or prove to be nothing but inversionist
anti-Christians. We are, however, against any satanic or other organization
out there that is against us or that engages in harassment or slander of us.
Our feelings on all Alternate Religion organizational squabbles are clearly
explained in the article Mastering Satanism
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/mast-sat.html We know they have to
stop and we won't be part of it unless pushed into a corner where we have to
make a statement. Some of them have pushed! Notably, it was not Christians,
Moslems or Jews that did the pushing.

*********************************************

Here is what we stand for socio-politically:

1. Do you agree that WORKERS should be paid a livable wage, a wage that
Labor Unions would probably demand, and that workers have a right to
organize? A neighborhood and/or community filled with overworked and
underpaid workers eventually becomes a slum since the people living next to
you can't afford the necessities of life with a few frills. A stress filled
community is a dangerous community.

2. Do you agree that HEALTH CARE is not a privilege but a Human Right that
all citizens should have in a civilized technological country? Included in
this would be Medicare for our formerly hard-working elderly folks who are
now losing all the money they worked honestly and hard for due to the high
cost of prescription drugs. Included in this is the strengthening of the
Social Security System which once guaranteed a continued good life after
retiring from a life of work. Sick people who can't afford health care
could spread the plague. Plagues do not discriminate between rich or poor.

3. Do you agree that PUBLIC EDUCATION should be available to all citizens,
not just in primary and secondary schools, but including day-care if
necessary and up through college for all who qualify in a race/gender blind
merit system where the best, no matter who they are, are encouraged to
excel? This would mean an EQUAL RIGHT, blind equal rights, to excel or fail
in a public education system. An educated nation is a civilized nation.
Educated people are informed people.

4. Do you agree that CORPORATE WELFARE must stop - and that money needs to
get back to the workers who make everything, and not drain out to the big
corporations? Corporations have the same rights as citizens, but right now
they do not have to abide by the same laws governing citizens. They should
be made to. When they harm the workers, they harm the country that the
workers live in.

5. Do you believe in stringently maintaining a SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND
STATE so that people not only have freedom OF religion, but also freedom
FROM religion if they so choose? Right now, Congress can make no laws
regarding religion. But City Ordinances can be passed and States can make
laws.

6. Do you believe in striving for a clean and healthy ENVIRONMENT and
an end to needless environmental destruction? This includes ANIMAL RIGHTS
for animals other than human animals when it comes to non-health care uses
of animals. Animals need not be slaughtered for vanity purposes. This
entails working for clean energy (or cleaner) and making this affordable to
all citizens. Note that this does not mean we are anti-technology or
Luddites; we are in favor of new technology being developed and used (we
already have much of it) to create a less wasteful and clean environment.

7. Do you believe that the Multi-national corporations and Trans-national
corporations need to HIRE OUR OWN CITIZENS and not wander outside for cheap
labor (who are like SCABS in Union talk)? A scab is a person that works for
super low wages and takes your job away from you. You can't possibly live
on a wage as low as the scab is working for - for instance, $1.00 an hour.

8. Do you believe in cutting the military budget and putting more of our own
tax dollars to the service of the people? This incorporates the idea that we
need not fear foreign invasion if people own guns! This includes the idea
that we don't need to waste tax payer's money on being the "police of the
world" or trying to solve the problems of other sovereign nations. The
military budget need not be used to make MORE nuclear weapons, it could be
used to enhance the nation and definitely, for the quality of life of the
men and women that are in the military. The old G. I. Bill was much better
than the new one in terms of quality of life for our armed forces.

9. Do you believe that in any civilized society that PEOPLE should be put
BEFORE PROFITS? Keep in mind, the key word here is CIVILIZED.

10. Do you agree with us on these very important issues pertaining to
Satanism: we are DEAD AGAINST bloody rituals and/or human or animal
sacrifices; we are DEAD AGAINST policies that promote sexual relations with
children - and by that we mean CHILDREN, not high school kids that already
have sex. Support for anything like this is one of the biggest dangers
threatening Satanism. Groups that have links to such things, or
organizations that advocate them, have their own websites. Linking to them
has nothing to do with "freedom of speech." Actively linking to them is
active promotion of what they advocate, or what they promote. If you have
such links, do not link to us or try to join us. If you wish to join us,
remove those links. Freedom of speech means nothing without responsibility
to the self. There is also Freedom of CHOICE.

*********************************************
Elevent Monographs detailing LEFT HAND PATH THROUGHOUT THE AGES Western and
Eastern, Ancient Tradition - also known as the Dark Doctrines or Dark
Tradition Monographs can be purchased from:

http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/dd-ad.html
This is direct from the publishers.
or
http://www.satan2000.com/plaza/promo-doctrines.htm
This is from Satan Shop.

These are:

1. Serpents vs. Adamites -- 3 parts, earliest history. Who are
Adamites? What exactly is "Genesis" saying that everyone missed? Who are
these "Satanic" or "Serpent people" who struggled against these other
people?

2. Western LHP Roots, Part 1 -- Pythagoreanism. The definitive ROOT
of Esoteric Dark Tradition in the West, the real tradition with a clear
expose of what was NOT the same tradition: Socrates! Who were the
Pythagoreans? What were THEIR roots!

3. Western LHP Roots, Part 2 -- Pt. 2: Tenders of the Flame and
Christian Racism, the truth. More pertinent to Americans, a detail of just
WHO founded the USA and who their enemies were and are today. An expose on
who the real Columbus was - what he was and who he was connected to.

4. Sigil of Baphomet -- ancient Vedic origins of "Satan" and other key
words such as Djinn, Sat, Tan. What the Baphomet is, a 3-fold sigil.
Carducci's Hymn to Satan and the Palladians in the USA.

5. Real WICCA -- IRA and it's real roots, Eleusinian Mysteries from the
Hellenes to Ireland and elsewhere, Trees, the Goddess, the Scots, what Wicca
originally was - and what it was not.

6. SET-- 2 parts -- Sirius of most ancient times, and the later
Egyptian God idea, who could have built the pyramids, and Naga. This is the
history of Set, two kinds of Set, and a full explanation of the ELEUSINIAN
(so-called Egyptian Mystery Tradition) tradition regarding Set, Osiris,
Horus, and Isis.

7. Kaballa: Dark Tradition: includes Pythagorean/Ophite, Obic and
Sephiroth (Light Tradition). This is the Kaballa as known by the real
keepers of it, the Ophite Jews who had the additional knowledge of the
Pythagoreans to compliment the Sephiroth tradition of most publicized works
on the Kaballa. (It is not known if other Jews from other denominations know
this, they keep their traditions too secret to find out.)

8. Tantra/Vajrayana & Pythagoreanism: same Dark Tradition. As is well
known to the few SCHOLARS of Pythagorean tradition, it is thoroughly Eastern
in Nature. But never is it stated for laymen "which kind" of Eastern it is.
This shows and explains clearly the identicalness of Tantra of only the
Vajrayana kind, to Pythagorean tradition: the ROOTS of Esoteric Dark
Tradition in the West

9. Taoism: Dark Tradition, includes FuHsi/NuKwa and uses the
Pythagorean (star) method. Includes Shao Yung's "Wheel." Difficult article
to understand and we were unable to "dumb it down." An understanding of
Tantra and Kaballa helps if one wishes to grasp this article. Not the
Basics!

10. Package of Doctrines: basics spelled out -- origin of "Devil,"
Satan vs. Lucifer, and much more. Preface written during the time of the
SRA scare, the Package goes on with many articles to explain some very
interesting LHP facts not well known to modern-day occultists, and not
clearly understood at all. Fully explained here.

11. Convalescence from Christianity: explains how Christianity is an
anti-Nature being-state (not just a religion) damaging to children and
explains how Christians DO this to their children in ways you probably NEVER
imagined: it's not the typical anti-Christian stuff seen by no-clarity
neo-Satanists or Atheists at all. If you are reading this, you probably
have been affected by the Christian omniculture yourself. This REALLY
spells out things which allow for deep introspection aiding anyone to
uncover the still-buried Christian within. Some things in this article may
be be painful to read, especially if read with an open heart and the desire
to REMEMBER FEELINGS - and clear those feelings out.

*********************************************
Online urls to satanic information.

http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/s-red.html

http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/art-dt.html

http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/rituals.html

http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/666.html

Online urls for political

http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/art-sp.html

Online urls for some funny things and laughter

http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/art-fun.html

http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/art-cthulhufun.html

Other online resources for excellent information connected to Dark Tradition

http://www.geocities.com/go_darkness/index.html

http://www.lylyth.org

Satanic Reds - Dark Tradition, Sat & Tan
Frames: http://satanicreds.says.it
Bookmark http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds
Michelet Satanism and Witchcraft www.lylyth.org
Dark Doctrines www.apodion.com/vad/
Guardians of Darkness http://geocities.com/go_darkness/index.html
Cthulhu Mythos:
http://.innsmouth.rules.it
http://lovecraft.shows.it
"Life is a wonder to be lived; not a problem to be solved."
-- TJ
Post by catherine yronwode
Tyagi - feel free to hand this to the FAQ person
Hi, Tani --
I think this post of yours is not a FAQ. That is, it is not organized
in the traditional form of frequently answered questions, with answers
from a particular viewpoint.
The 11 different alt.satanism FAQs that siva archives and reposts
monthly all follow the conventional internet FAQ format. Please
understand that although he may have archived some Satanic Reds
material that you previously posted to usenet, he does not repost
monthly to alt.satanism any reference docs and FAQs that are not
alt.satanism FAQs.
I suggest that siva *would* archive and repost an alt.satanism FAQ
written from a Satanic Reds viewpoint if you would produce one that
was in the conventional FAQ format.
Cordially,
cat yronwode
Free Magick Spells Archive ---- http://www.luckymojo.com/spells.html
catherine yronwode
2004-11-21 07:47:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tani Jantsang
Hi, just found this alt.xyzzy thing.
Yeah, alt.xyzzy was founded for discussion of the text game
"Adventure" in which the term xyzzy has a particular usage, but since
that game is pretty obsolete, it has been fairly abandoned and for the
past several years, a group of us have used it to discuss and post
announcements about our text archiving projects.
Post by Tani Jantsang
Well, the updated one I posted is in
more of a faq format in that there
are questions, answers and clear
explanations on it.
Yes, but Tani, "more of a FAQ format" is not a FAQ. Take a look at how
FAQS are laid out. Here are a sample:

http://www.luckymojo.com/faqs/altluckywfaq.html

Notice the opening:

----------------------
The alt.lucky.w FAQ v.3.8
by catherine yronwode
First posted to usenet October 5th, 1995
This revision made March 30th, 1999
----------------------

The FAQ has a title and a version number
(the versions signify major and minor changes;
in this case, v.3.8 signifies 2 major changes
rom v.1.0 and 8 minor changes (corrections of
spelling errors) from v.3.0)
The FAQ has an author (or an editorial committee)
The FAQ has an origination date
(this sample is a usenet FAQ, hence the
origination date is its first date of posting)
The FAQ has a "most recent revision" date

Without these things in the header, it is not a proper FAQ for
archiving.

Next comes the table of contents. This is titled as such and within it
are listed all the questions that will be answered in the body of the
FAQ itself:

=========================================================
TABLE OF CONTENTS
=========================================================

1) What is alt.lucky.w?

2) What is Lucky W?

3) What is the official logotype of Lucky W?

4) What is Luck?

5) What is W?

6) Where are this FAQ and selected alt.lucky.w posts archived?

7) How can i get my isp to supply me with alt.lucky.w?

After the table of contents, the answers appear, each one numerically
keyed to its question. here is the layout for the first few lines of
reply to question #1 above:

=========================================================
1) What is alt.lucky.w?
=========================================================

Alt.lucky.w is a usenet newsgroup devoted to discussion of [...]
Post by Tani Jantsang
I'll repost it here. This is good enough, as I previously said :)
Actually, it is not "good enough." :-) Okay, now, briefly, i will
critique your format and show why what you posted is not a FAQ in the
conventional sense, and how to fix it quickly and easily so that it
Post by Tani Jantsang
SATANIC REDS - SOCIAL REALISTS INFORMATION
www.geocities.com/satanicreds/
or http://satanicreds.says.it
*********************************************
This is not titled properly. It does not say FAQ in the title, much
less "alt.satanism FAQ." It does not have a version number. It does
not have an author name. It does not have an origination date. It does
not have a "most recent revision" date.

It does not -- and this is most important -- have a table of contents
listing the questions.

FAQ stands for either Frequently Asked Questions or Frequently
Answered Questions. Without a Table of Contents listing the questions,
the document is not a FAQ.
Post by Tani Jantsang
Unity in the Adamantine Esoteric Tradition of the Boundless
Darkness, what we call the Dark Tradition - Tani Jantsang
This is an essay title, not a question.

Also, there seem to be three or more essays, each with its own URL,
all run together in one string after this opening. I had to scroll
through HUNDREDS of lines before i reached the first question!
Post by Tani Jantsang
WHY DO WE CALL OURSELVES SATANIC REDS?
The above is not a question addressed to you. Also, it is in ALL-CAPS.
The proper form would be

1) Why do you call yourselves Satanic Reds?
Post by Tani Jantsang
This and Some Other Questions
The above sentence is not an answer to the question and should be
deleted.
Post by Tani Jantsang
We have run into a few questions
about this title and some of the titles of
our opening guidelines, about
the meanings of the "dreaded" symbols we use.
We will answer these questions here, directly.
The above paragraph is padding and should be deleted.
Post by Tani Jantsang
Some people have wondered about the
name we've chosen for this organization,
despite what we thought were very clear
guidelines and explanations in Are
you a Satanic Red.
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/s-red.html
However, the above is NOT a reply to the question. It is a brush-off
and it is not informative to the querent.

Please take the time to write an actual reply.

Here is the second question:

2)
Post by Tani Jantsang
Are you Satanists?
The answer to that is yes and no -
because it would entirely depend on what
[... snipped]
The above (including the snipped potion) is a cogent, meaningful reply
to the question and would be suitable for a FAQ document.

From here on, the questions seem clear, as do the replies. The only
problem is that they are not numbered and they do not appear in a
Table of Contents.

For your convenience, i have numbered them:

3) What is the Satan that SR espouses?

4) Does SR regard people that feel this dark force and
flame as better than those who do not?

5) But why REDS? Why do you call yourselves Red?

This question is redundant with Question number 1. If you did not
answer it fully there (which you did not!) then of course people will
ask it again -- however, this is a FAQ, not a Socratic dialogue. So
Question 5 is deleted. Answer Question 1 instead. The number 5 is used
for the next question:

5) Well then is the SR capitalist or socialist?

Delete the words "well then" -- this is not a Socratic dialogue.

6) What is the hammer and sickle in your sigil?

7) What do you use the pentacle for?

8) FDRoosevelt was an American President.
Is this for Americans only?

The above hardly seems frequently asked. Perhaps the 2nd sentence is,
but not the first.

9) You are not like other satanic organizations
out there at all. Why not?

10) Isn't some of that Dark Tradition
Satanic stuff syncretistic or a synthesis
of many things?

11) Satan has always been seen as the
Dark Lord, Dark Principle, or Dark Force.
Does this tie it back to the Christian
or horror-show view?

12) Do you have any roots in Chaos Magic?

13) Do you have any roots in Thelema?

14) Do you have any roots in Theosophy?

15) Do you have any roots in the Witchcraft
or Wicca movement?

16) Do you have any roots in LaVeyan Satanism?

17) Do you have any roots in the Temple of Set?

18) Do you have roots in Atheism?

19) Are you a hierarchical organization
with a hierarchy of titles?
Post by Tani Jantsang
No, already explained in "Are you a Satanic Red."
-----
NOTE FROM CAT: This reply is not useful. Imagine that the FAQ is the
first document about your group that the reader encounters. They will
not have read that essay. Instead of insulting them, or confusing
them, simply provide a pointer to the URL of the essay.
-----

20) Are you communists or socialists?
Post by Tani Jantsang
No, already explained in "Are you a Satanic Red."
-----
NOTE FROM CAT: This reply is not useful for the same reason given
under Question 19. Furthermore, the question itself is partially
redundant with Question 5 ("Is the SR capitalist or socialist?").
Therefore the questions should be combined into one question -- "Is
the SR capitalist, socialist, or communist?" and the number 20 will be
re-used for the next question.
-----

20) Is there anything a person has to do if they join?
Post by Tani Jantsang
No, but practical suggestions are made in "Are
you a Satanic Red."
-----
NOTE FROM CAT: At this point you have stopped answering questions, You
are just flogging an essay. Either ANSWER the question in the FAQ with
a pointer to the URL for further information, or delete the question.
This reply is not useful. Imagine that the FAQ is the first document
about your group that the reader encounters. They will not have read
that essay. Instead of insulting them, or confusing them, simply
provide a pointer to the URL of the essay.
-----

21) Why do you insist on 10 political
statements for membership qualification
and not on a belief system?

22) Why have you made so much of this information
public to people?

23) Do you have a hierarchy of titles, such as
High Priest, Magus, Priest, etc?

-----
NOTE FROM CAT: This question is redundant with number 19 -- but here
you actually reply to it. Please use this reply under 19, with a
pointer to the essay URL if you wish, but do not repeat it here.

Because this will be folded in with number 19, i will re-use the
number 24 for the next valid question:
-----

23) What if some members don't get along with
other members or have disagreements? Can they
get kicked out for that? Do the founders step in?

24) Can members make a magazine for the organization
on their own?

-----
NOTE FROM CAT: This question is probably NOT a frequently asked one.
-----

25) Members can make their own covens or grottos
for magickal workings. But how does that work
in connection to the SR org itself?

26) Why don't you charge money for membership?

27) Are you against other Satanic organizations or
any other organizations?

This ends the FAQ portion of your post. Following the Questions, you
Post by Tani Jantsang
*********************************************
This essay probably has its own URL and that URL should be referred to
in the reply to Question 5 ("Is the SR capitalist, socialist, or
communist?").
Post by Tani Jantsang
Elevent [sic] Monographs detailing LEFT HAND PATH THROUGHOUT THE AGES
-- but this is not a FAQ either, unless you insert the question:

28) Where can i read more about Left Hand Path Traditions on the web?

So there is your list of FAQ questions. I will now assemble them into
a conventional alt.satanism FAQ format for you. Because several of the
questions fall into obvious sub-sets, i have re-ordered (and
re-numbered them, using Roman numerals for the sections and decimal
points for a series of questions that fall under a larger question.
This results in a total of 20 questions:


=========================================================
=========================================================
=========================================================

The Satanic Reds alt.satanism FAQ v.1.0
by Tani Jantsang
First posted to usenet November 20, 2004
This revision made November 20, 2004

=========================================================
TABLE OF CONTENTS
=========================================================

I Satanic Reds and Satanism in General

1) Why do you call yourselves Satanic Reds?

2) Are you Satanists?

3) What is the Satan that SR espouses?

4) Satan has always been seen as the
Dark Lord, Dark Principle, or Dark Force.
Does this tie it back to the Christian
or horror-show view?

5) Isn't some of that Dark Tradition
Satanic stuff syncretistic or a synthesis
of many things?

5.1) Do you have any roots in Chaos Magic?

5.2) Do you have any roots in Thelema?

5.3) Do you have any roots in Theosophy?

5.4) Do you have any roots in the Witchcraft
or Wicca movement?

5.5) Do you have any roots in LaVeyan Satanism?

5.6) Do you have any roots in the Temple of Set?

5.7) Do you have roots in Atheism?

II Political and Philosophical Issues

6) Is the SR capitalist, socialist, or communist?

7) Why do you insist on 10 political
statements for membership qualification
and not on a belief system?

8) Does SR regard people that feel this dark force and
flame as better than those who do not?

9) What is the hammer and sickle in your sigil?

10) What do you use the pentacle for?

II The Satanic Reds Organization

11) You are not like other satanic organizations
out there at all. Why not?

12) Are you a hierarchical organization
with a hierarchy of titles?

13) Is there anything a person has to do if they join?

14) Is SR for Americans only?

15) Why don't you charge money for membership?

16) Why have you made so much of this information
public to people?

17) If members can make their own covens or grottos
for magickal workings, how does that work in
connection to the SR organization itself?

18) Can members make a magazine for the organization
on their own?

19) What if some members don't get along with
other members or have disagreements? Can they
get kicked out for that? Do the founders step in?

20) Are you against other Satanic organizations or
any other organizations?

III Further Information

21) Where can i read more about Left Hand Path Traditions
on the web?

=========================================================

At this pint you should lay out the rest of the FAQ by repeating each
question, with a call-out such as the one i supplied in the
alt.lucky.w FAQ above. In your case the first question would be called
out like this:

=========================================================
1) Why do you call yourselves Satanic Reds?
=========================================================

And from there on, you can finish the job, just inserting the replies
to the questions.

I took an hour of my time to help you because it seemed to me that you
sincerely wanted to have a regular alt.satanism FAQ archived by siva,
but you did not understand the conventional FAQ format. I felt
compassion for your interest, and tried to help you. I am sure that if
you present the Satanic Reds alt.satanism FAQ in the format i have
outlined, siva will archive it and will take care of reposting it to
usenet once a month.

Good luck with this project.

Cordially,

cat yronwode

Hoodoo in Theory and Practice - http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html
Tani Jantsang
2004-11-21 16:41:48 UTC
Permalink
AH, I see. Well, we do call it an info sheet - on the website, there is a
faq with q and a on it.

Hmm, also the very concept of "alt.satanism" faq is rather nauseating LOL.
I did wonder about not being on it, and so I asked. I regard this place as
a cesspool of some of the worst people - the types that write your number on
a bathroom wall with a dirty message next to it. Or the type that deface
photos. MY photos. Notice I have not done that to THEM? It's nauseating.
When I have posted it - it was to a lot of other newsgroups aside from
alt.s.

I'll discuss it. One of the other founders did the faq page on the website
with q and a on it - but I'll discuss it. NONE of them read this newsgroup,
btw. They've had it. It's trash, nothing but
trash and nothing good CAN come of it. I agree with that, Cat. But I also
know what "not watching my back" resulted in not so long ago.
I can fix that. But I'm not sure anyone will agree to making an acqual
faq - especially for usenet groups.
Post by catherine yronwode
3) What is the Satan that SR espouses?
4) Does SR regard people that feel this dark force and
flame as better than those who do not?
5) But why REDS? Why do you call yourselves Red?
This question is redundant with Question number 1. If you did not
answer it fully there (which you did not!) then of course people will
ask it again -- however, this is a FAQ, not a Socratic dialogue. So
Question 5 is deleted. Answer Question 1 instead. The number 5 is used
I can fix that by changing the whole title of it in the first place. This
thing has had divers hands in it - at first it was a supremely short article
"Why do we call ourselves SR." It got LONG over time. :)
Post by catherine yronwode
5) Well then is the SR capitalist or socialist?
Delete the words "well then" -- this is not a Socratic dialogue.
6) What is the hammer and sickle in your sigil?
7) What do you use the pentacle for?
8) FDRoosevelt was an American President.
Is this for Americans only?
The above hardly seems frequently asked. Perhaps the 2nd sentence is,
but not the first.
OH yes it surely is asked and in that exact way! Foreign people look up
FDR, they have no idea who that is at first - and wonder if this is an
American thing! That's due to the sociopolitical web menu page - with HEAPS
of articles.
Post by catherine yronwode
9) You are not like other satanic organizations
out there at all. Why not?
10) Isn't some of that Dark Tradition
Satanic stuff syncretistic or a synthesis
of many things?
11) Satan has always been seen as the
Dark Lord, Dark Principle, or Dark Force.
Does this tie it back to the Christian
or horror-show view?
12) Do you have any roots in Chaos Magic?
13) Do you have any roots in Thelema?
14) Do you have any roots in Theosophy?
15) Do you have any roots in the Witchcraft
or Wicca movement?
16) Do you have any roots in LaVeyan Satanism?
17) Do you have any roots in the Temple of Set?
18) Do you have roots in Atheism?
19) Are you a hierarchical organization
with a hierarchy of titles?
Post by Tani Jantsang
No, already explained in "Are you a Satanic Red."
-----
NOTE FROM CAT: This reply is not useful. Imagine that the FAQ is the
first document about your group that the reader encounters. They will
not have read that essay. Instead of insulting them, or confusing
them, simply provide a pointer to the URL of the essay.
The link is there - it's just not showing up on here. I can fix it in the
online info thing.
Post by catherine yronwode
-----
20) Are you communists or socialists?
Post by Tani Jantsang
No, already explained in "Are you a Satanic Red."
-----
NOTE FROM CAT: This reply is not useful for the same reason given
under Question 19. Furthermore, the question itself is partially
redundant with Question 5 ("Is the SR capitalist or socialist?").
Therefore the questions should be combined into one question -- "Is
the SR capitalist, socialist, or communist?" and the number 20 will be
re-used for the next question.
Right, the q was there twice - tho is is technically different from the q
about red. Today Red means pro Bush state. LOL. Not everyone is familiar
with that slang term.
Post by catherine yronwode
-----
20) Is there anything a person has to do if they join?
Post by Tani Jantsang
No, but practical suggestions are made in "Are
you a Satanic Red."
-----
NOTE FROM CAT: At this point you have stopped answering questions, You
are just flogging an essay. Either ANSWER the question in the FAQ with
a pointer to the URL for further information, or delete the question.
This reply is not useful. Imagine that the FAQ is the first document
about your group that the reader encounters. They will not have read
that essay. Instead of insulting them, or confusing them, simply
provide a pointer to the URL of the essay.
-----
21) Why do you insist on 10 political
statements for membership qualification
and not on a belief system?
22) Why have you made so much of this information
public to people?
23) Do you have a hierarchy of titles, such as
High Priest, Magus, Priest, etc?
-----
24) Can members make a magazine for the organization
on their own?
-----
NOTE FROM CAT: This question is probably NOT a frequently asked one.
Heh, yup, it was. And I had to send out BOKU emails - limit of 20 at a
time, to get articles for someone wanting to make one more than once.
People soon learn that making an offline magazine is not so much fun - and
not that easy. And they have to charge money for it - since it COSTS money
to make it. Yet it has taken me HOURS to get the message out to the
members. There has to be some easier way......
Post by catherine yronwode
-----
25) Members can make their own covens or grottos
for magickal workings. But how does that work
in connection to the SR org itself?
26) Why don't you charge money for membership?
27) Are you against other Satanic organizations or
any other organizations?
This ends the FAQ portion of your post. Following the Questions, you
Post by Tani Jantsang
*********************************************
This essay probably has its own URL and that URL should be referred to
in the reply to Question 5 ("Is the SR capitalist, socialist, or
communist?").
Post by Tani Jantsang
Elevent [sic] Monographs detailing LEFT HAND PATH THROUGHOUT THE AGES
Eh - maybe I'll pass on the faq - in the 30 minutes that have passed since
I read this, emailed others, replied, stopped to make coffee, I got two
emails back with one word on them: NO. One phone call "are you nuts?
Usenet?" Oh well - I'll fix errors and number stuff as you suggested.
Maybe I'll make a faq and mail you it anyway. Not today, tho. Won't be
here much longer.
Post by catherine yronwode
28) Where can i read more about Left Hand Path Traditions on the web?
Those are not on the web - they are hard copy and sold.
Post by catherine yronwode
So there is your list of FAQ questions. I will now assemble them into
a conventional alt.satanism FAQ format for you. Because several of the
questions fall into obvious sub-sets, i have re-ordered (and
re-numbered them, using Roman numerals for the sections and decimal
points for a series of questions that fall under a larger question.
OH, thanks!

I copied this, will get to it. THANKS!
catherine yronwode
2004-11-21 20:45:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tani Jantsang
AH, I see. Well, we do call it an info sheet - on the website, there is a
faq with q and a on it.
Hmm, also the very concept of "alt.satanism" faq is rather nauseating LOL.
I did wonder about not being on it, and so I asked. I regard this place
as a cesspool of some of the worst [snip...]
Well, you asked why your material was not being reposted by the
tyaginator along with the other eleven alt.satanism FAQs, so i replied
and showed you the format to use in creating a proper usenet FAQ --
but i can't possibly advise you about the value of usenet or
alt.satanism to your organization; that's up to you and your
colleagues to decide. :-)

Cordially,

cat yronwode

Karezza and Sacred Sex ----- http://www.luckymojo.com/sacredsex.html
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